tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10506214.post5286652166530314733..comments2024-01-23T13:41:41.463-05:00Comments on The Forager Blog: Flash v. 2 #5 and Flash v. 2 #6Jon Hastingshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01030406521787423155noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10506214.post-2010346754277208472008-08-27T21:55:00.000-04:002008-08-27T21:55:00.000-04:00Hmm, I'm not sure how I can explain, but let me la...Hmm, I'm not sure how I can explain, but let me lay some foundation.<BR/><BR/>In the seven years in which I actively collected comic books, I bought precisely <I>one</I> DC comic: <I>Green Lantern Corps #217</I>. Why that one? I don't really know. I enjoyed that issue, but I didn't become a Green Lantern fan. <BR/><BR/>As you know, sometime around 1994 Ron Marz wiped out 99% of the series to start fresh and reconceptualize everything. This decision infuriated die-hard Green Lantern fans, who thought Marz was the Anti-Christ. <BR/><BR/>I remember laughing at these dopes, thinking, "Gee, it's just a crummy superhero, lighten up! Whiners like you are why comic books, which are about the most insanely fresh concepts, are so horribly stagnant."<BR/><BR/>But in 1999, during a very dull job, I discovered several on-line Green Lantern resources, particularly the Book of Oa. It was the perfect way to while away a dull work day... and after reading about G'nort, Appa Ali Apsa, Professor Ojo, etc., I became a Green Lantern fan. (John Stewart 4 ever!!!!)<BR/><BR/>And, to my own amazement, <B>I too</B> became furious at Ron Marz, even though intellectually I knew he was completely in the right. It really upset me that he had "ruined" generations of stories, this rich cosmos, in order to do something so pedestrian.<BR/><BR/>Now: considering that those earlier stories still exist, and Kyle Rayner can't make them un-exist, what the hell was my problem? But I certainly had one.<BR/><BR/>I guess what it comes down to is that I came to appreciate how much hard work went into building the Green Lantern universe, and Marz's attempt to assert his creativity felt disrepsectful to the earlier creators/creations, and his own contributions can't help but look inadequate in the process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10506214.post-89276114971166202062008-08-27T18:37:00.000-04:002008-08-27T18:37:00.000-04:00"But this is comics - in particular, DC Comics - w..."But this is comics - in particular, DC Comics - where precedent and continuity are more important than doing something interesting and fresh. "<BR/><BR/>I agree with this!<BR/><BR/>My contention (at this point) is that while it may or may not be more difficult to write Flash (or a character like him) well, it does require a different set of skills than writing a more self-contained hero well (that is, in WGP... terms, a character that is overflowing with juicy aspects).<BR/><BR/>DC characters, in general, tend to be less self-contained than the Marvel characters that inspired WGP (Flash might work better in Capes, where individual characters don't have the same central importance). What DC characters are "about" has to do with how they're positioned relative to all that other stuff that's going on and has gone on in the Mythos.<BR/><BR/>I don't think Baron is interested in this stuff in the way Mark Waid or Geoff Johns are. I don't see that as a big deficiency for Baron: IMO, he created/wrote one of the best contemporary super-hero comics (<I>Nexus</I>), what I've read of <I>Badger</I> is really strong, and at least the first issue of his <I>Punisher</I> run has held up. So his not being able to or, much more likely, not <I>wanting</I> to make DCU continuity work for him is minor in the big scheme of things.<BR/><BR/>(And I should clarify: I do like these <I>Flash</I> comics and think that the next couple issues get better.)<BR/><BR/>However, I think that creators <I>can</I> make this stuff work for them. I think that Mark Waid and Geoff Johns both do so in the context of writing <I>Flash</I> (we'll see if I make it that far).<BR/><BR/>I didn't follow the Green Lantern stuff: are you angry at what Marz did because you see it as a betrayal of something core to the character?Jon Hastingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01030406521787423155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10506214.post-17992168426474881762008-08-27T09:01:00.000-04:002008-08-27T09:01:00.000-04:00Oh, I'm sorry: I left out my conclusion tying this...Oh, I'm sorry: I left out my conclusion tying this stuff together:<BR/><BR/>It's hard to write for a character where the "core plot" or thematic elements are difficult to identify. Normally you could rely on genre conventions to get you through, but <I>The Flash</I> seems like a pretty standard superhero series, so that won't help you stand out. And given the readership, it's hard to take big risks.<BR/><BR/>I'm not saying you're wrong in your assessment of Baron, but nevertheless I think it's a hard game to play well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10506214.post-45580115478092364662008-08-27T08:53:00.000-04:002008-08-27T08:53:00.000-04:00I'm going to stand by my comments earlier: I suspe...I'm going to stand by my comments earlier: I suspect the Flash is a difficult character to write well (at least by my standards of "well").<BR/><BR/>On and off for the past few days, inspired largely by your series of posts, I've been fooling around with a <I>With Great Power...</I> game scenario for the next Nerd NYC Recess, and I'm using a menu of DC superheroes.<BR/><BR/>As you know, <I>With Great Power...</I> characters consist of writing down what you know about the hero, and turning this into a laundry list of "aspects."<BR/><BR/>It was frustrating to realize that based solely on his various cartoon appearances, the few <I>Flash</I> comics I've read, and his guest appearances in other comics, what I know about the Flash is:<BR/><BR/>* He's the fastest man alive<BR/>* He has a cosmic treadmill<BR/>* He worships his uncle<BR/>* His villains are... an acquired taste.<BR/><BR/>It's tempting to conclude that the character is "about" nothing at all. And with very little connection to a "straight" genre, it's not really clear how to steer him. (I know you said the Flash is a sci-fi series, but he seems far less so than <I>The Fantastic Four</I> or <I>Green Lantern</I>.)<BR/><BR/>Having a completely open field like this would be helpful in many ways, because you would be free to re-invent the character completely and alter the local cosmology as you see fit. But this is comics - in particular, <I>DC Comics</I> - where precedent and continuity are more important than doing something interesting and fresh. <BR/><BR/>(Case in point: although intellectually I can appreciate the decision to turn Hal Jordan into a villain, kill off the Corps, and make Kyle the new Green Lantern - <I>I am still filled with rage!</I> Marz, you suck! I wish I were being ironic about this, but I'm not.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10506214.post-11672880588673487562008-08-26T14:48:00.000-04:002008-08-26T14:48:00.000-04:00Comics are kind of hard for me to read.-SmokyComics are kind of hard for me to read.<BR/><BR/>-SmokyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10506214.post-12571238214454299722008-08-26T10:49:00.000-04:002008-08-26T10:49:00.000-04:00James -Yes - that's the test.I'd point to the Giff...James -<BR/><BR/>Yes - that's the test.<BR/><BR/>I'd point to the Giffen/DeMatteis/Maguire <I>Justice League</I> as an example of a book that successfully combined all of these elements. It wasn't really a "gritty" book, but it had a number of "realistic" details a la Baron's <I>Flash</I> (super hero team with corporate sponsorship, character death, etc.).<BR/><BR/>The cross-over event <I>Legends</I>, by John Ostrander, Len Wein, and John Byrne, (which Baron's <I>Flash</I> grew out of) also blended things more successfully than Baron does here. (I'll be writing in more detail about this series pretty soon).<BR/><BR/>There are a couple more books contemporary to these that I'll be looking at, but my observation at this point is that some creators (Ostrander, Wein, Giffen, DeMatteis, Byrne, Maguire) were simply more comfortable working with the DC Mythos than others (Baron, Guice). I'm not ruling out bad decisions from editorial, but, in interviews, Baron hasn't mentioned that kind of interference. (Although I will be bringing up the issue of his cocaine abuse and how that might relate to things in a future post).<BR/><BR/>I'm also going to pull out my old issues of <I>The Punisher</I>, which Baron was writing at the same time as this <I>Flash</I> run. I used to think (fairly) highly of these comics, but it's been a while.<BR/><BR/>Not that I don't think editorial wasn't making bad decisions (the not-very-fondly-remembered <I>Millenium</I> event is right around the corner and, though I liked it enough at the time, I'm not expecting it to have held up every well), but in this case I think it's a matter of Baron not being able to get much traction.Jon Hastingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01030406521787423155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10506214.post-73176678500137154742008-08-26T09:53:00.000-04:002008-08-26T09:53:00.000-04:00I'll take your word that Baron isn't able to artic...I'll take your word that Baron isn't able to articulate the benefits of the "DC Mythos" very well.<BR/><BR/>But why isn't this the result of the more "realistic" approach? I've never been a big DC fan, but the way you talk about it, the chief feature is that over 70 years it's become an incredibly gnarly and convoluted imaginary world, where you can't walk 5 steps without tripping over some guy who used to be Captain Comet of Earth-3.<BR/><BR/>But I can't really see how to showcase this feature in the "gritty" world of late-80's comic books. They had just wiped out a zillion parallel universes a few months before, Krypto was gone, etc. <BR/><BR/>In other words, this problem could easily be the result of editorial mandate rather than the writer. The test would require looking at other writers on second-tier books at this time, and see how they're doing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com